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February 27, 2008


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Nick Commons-Miller

I don't quite see where you prove the threat to European culture. For example, Islam is growing in Europe, but that is because of immigration and fast-reproducing immigrant populations. You cite no statistics showing a growth of Islam among white Europeans, or examples of an end to European values among Europeans.

You cite that people seem to know more about ramadan than lent, but that says nothing about anything European except for Christianity.

Even one of your seemingly most damning examples is an example to incorporate sharia law in disputes between Muslims. I don't see where that is an infringement on European culture rather than accommodation of Muslims within Europe.

Maybe the best you cite is that religious officials want some kind of ideological merger with Islam, but that still says nothing of European ideals outside of religion, which is obviously not the biggest deal to many Europeans. Not to mention that some kind of Christianity/Islam mix does not automatically mean getting rid of European values within the religion.

Also, you shouldn't cite the city populations as absolute indication of Muslim population. It is misrepresenting the truth in order to try to prove your point. You can easily look up the national proportion

Another major problem, probably the most major problem, I see with what you are writing is: where is your proof that the values you think are important in European culture are being replaced by similar Islamic ideals? You show that religious traditions may be changing, but that's about it.

“secular liberalism, the official ideology of almost all the nations of Western Europe, offers hedonism, sexual license, anomie, demoralization and gradual depopulation.”

This quote is also just straight up not true. This is that person's stereotype of what the culture is, when it is really something entirely different. Social norms have not disappeared for sure, but they are different. The statement contradicts itself since it is itself names things that it thinks are social norms (though really, I think to say that hedonism and sexual license are the cultural norms is really ignoring large parts of the culture). "Demoralization" is only true if you believe religion is the only source of morality, which I don't really think it is. People who are immoral will be immoral regardless of whether they are religious or not, and most other people have some sense of morality. Gradual depopulation also has nothing to do with the culture. If you look at the evidence, in general people who are richer have less children, as do people who are more educated. It seems to indicate that it is not a matter of culture but of wealth and education.

If you are going to quote something like this, at least don't quote it as if it is fact, and instead try to explain and prove the point.

"is receiving death threats for commenting that certain areas of his country are “no go” areas for Christians and other non-Muslims because of the threat of violence from militant Islamic gangs."

People receive death threats in America for saying various things. Guess what, it happens in pretty much any society. To some extent it happens from prejudice. If the system and society continues to promote the ideals you see as good aspects of European culture, such actions will tend to decrease (this seems to happen in American culture, at least). I agree that the good values should continue to be promoted, but I really do not see where this crisis you are depicting exists at all.

Also, just another point, I think this may be oversimplifying European culture in general. I think that the values you consider good values of European culture should continue to be promoted (they are good values), but I think that cultures differ depending on the nation in Europe, and though these values are associated with European culture, they may not always really truly be part of all European cultures. They do seem to be included in how the government is constructed, but it is important to note that in terms of comparing populations that both general populations may include in some aspects values you would not consider the good aspects of European values, that the populations are not as monolithic as you think, and that they do not precisely follow such a dichotomy (and this is true not just as a result of Muslim influence, but it has always been true that the values you think as of good values in European culture have not always been omnipresent in European culture).

I also don't quite see why you think all Muslims in Europe are that extreme and hold such terrible values.

Nick Commons-Miller

Oh, and one more things, gangs based on ethnicities exist in America too, and it is dangerous for people of other ethnicities to go into neighborhoods where those gangs are present. You seem to imply it is some problem with Islam, or that Muslims are so extreme that they have this problem, but it is really a more common human problem.

Nick Commons-Miller

Also, if Islam was changing European culture, but the good values of European culture remained, what would be the big deal? It is also not like Islamic values are on the whole negative, or even mostly negative. 93% of Muslims are moderates, and moderate Islam could hardly be considered to promote negative values. (in fact, it promotes many of the values you consider European values)

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